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[ECONOMY] A Redesigned Government Trade Centre - DISCUSSION

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[ECONOMY] A Redesigned Government Trade Centre - DISCUSSION

Postby Johngi » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:44 pm

Please note: My knowledge of how much money is worth here is limited. Because of that, some values stated below probably sound overly high and would need changing. Please comment in the discussion section to say how badly off my judgment is.

I also suggest that, in any case, the current GTC should be closed.


Hey! I know I've only just rejoined after three years (and back then I was only here for a short while), but I'd like to give my suggestion for the trade centre. I've heard that the GTC is used by old and new players alike, and that's one of the major reasons the economy is dead.

From what I've seen, the GTC is an infinite pool of money that is given out to everyone for mining basic blocks. That's not gonna work.

So, I have a suggestion:

Don't let people sell stuff at the GTC that they can mine naturally. All that's going to lead to is people grinding with maxed out picks to make millions, and the only way to control that would be to lower the amount given out, which would hurt who it's supposed to support most.

Rather, make the GTC buy and sell commodities (which would only be available in the trade centres), i.e custom items. These would have absolutely no use in-game, and would simply serve to look like you're buying something. This something would then have to be transported by the player to another, smaller trade centre operated, again, by the government, and visible on the map with an icon. Here, the prices would be slightly different, and players can make money in arbitrage.

There are a few other things necessary to make this work. First of all, the differences between the prices can't be too high. Mining should remain profitable, but only because cobble and other mined materials are used in building and so players buy them, and not because the GTC always pays. Secondly, warps must be removed from all the towns, except for spawn. This would make transport a huge deal and would mean that players have to work to get to the next trade centre.

I would also recommend that each trade centre should have recommendations to where to go to make money, and that it should give directions to a suitable route or tell players to ask a PH.

Why would this be better? Well:

1. Shulker boxes suddenly have demand, because they would increase the amount of space you have to transport items.
2. Transport systems would have demand due to the removing warps part.
3. Having a better pick won't make you more money! The money you can make caps out at the amount you can hold in your inventory and buy at once. Even a new player can buy stacks of the commodities, and travel to sell them, while no matter how good your equipment is and how many shulker boxes you have, you're held back by the amount you can carry at once and the small difference between prices at each trade centre.

I have to quickly point out that the differences have to be *tiny*. If the difference between prices is F2, a full inventory makes F4736 in arbitrage. That's pretty big for a new player. With full shulker boxes, that gets multiplied by 27, or F127872. Again, a lot. However, if the difference in prices is at most F0.2, full shulker boxes makes F12787.20 and full inventory makes F473 profit. (Though, again, full shulker boxes' value decreases once you account in the time it takes to load and actually find where to

So, even if you have a huge amount of resources at your disposal, the amount of money you make isn't that much bigger. Not only that but having shulker boxes increases the amount of time it takes to load up, which decreases profit per hour.
4. There are better things to do if you have the resources. Being a merchant means making small profits on each run repeatedly, which is reliable but really slow and requires lots of resources to make
5. It's more exciting than mining. Being a merchant means you get to explore the world of hello miners, rather than start making your first pieces of money at the bottom of a mineshaft in ordinary mc terrain.

So, there's my suggestion. Of course, I have most probably overlooked some extremely important thing that everyone will spam me about, but that's not for here.


Discuss!

Re: [ECONOMY] A Redesigned Government Trade Centre - DISCUSS

Postby ~Doodle » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:20 pm

Johngi wrote:I've heard that the GTC is used by old and new players alike, and that's one of the major reasons the economy is dead.

Huh? This doesn't make sense. People are selling to the GTC in order to make limited amounts of money and that's why the economy is dead? I don't see how people using GTC is how the economy is dead, I see it as the only way people are making money and by removing it you've created a completely broken economy that is never going to move.


Johngi wrote:From what I've seen, the GTC is an infinite pool of money that is given out to everyone for mining basic blocks. That's not gonna work.

Apart from the fact that mining basic blocks in the number 1 way for new players to make any money at all after joining, I think it works more than well. It's been like this since teddie first made the server and it has remained yet the only way for new players to make money without any help until staff made cobble government, instead of keeping it adminshop. How is it not working?


Johngi wrote:Don't let people sell stuff at the GTC that they can mine naturally. All that's going to lead to is people grinding with maxed out picks to make millions, and the only way to control that would be to lower the amount given out, which would hurt who it's supposed to support most.

We already did the calculations, you would need next to nobody on the server for hours at a time and hundreds of pickaxes or exp bottles to scratch even close to 1 million. Every single player you ask who has 1 million or more will tell you they did not make it from mining stone at a stone gen for ages. The fact is, it is far to much effort to do this for sustainable amounts of money AND it bores you out of your skull. I can confirm nobody makes millions of stone mining.
If you remove all naturally mined blocks from GTC, how do you suggest new players make money other than mining cobble (which the chest is full and can't be sold to - this literally is the reason our new player retention rate is so shit)


Johngi wrote:Rather, make the GTC buy and sell commodities (which would only be available in the trade centres), i.e custom items. These would have absolutely no use in-game, and would simply serve to look like you're buying something. This something would then have to be transported by the player to another, smaller trade centre operated, again, by the government, and visible on the map with an icon. Here, the prices would be slightly different, and players can make money in arbitrage.

So to summarise, buy useless items from one gov trade centre and then fly to another which buys for more? Isn't this essentially transport items from A - B for money? This is what Alex essentially abused by placing minecarts which when transported gives 200f or something. It's also like hay transport where you can transport the hay minecart for money. This has been tried and worked but in the way you're suggesting, only those with elytras and shulkers will be able to do this of any great mass (rich people only).


Johngi wrote:There are a few other things necessary to make this work. First of all, the differences between the prices can't be too high. Mining should remain profitable, but only because cobble and other mined materials are used in building and so players buy them, and not because the GTC always pays. Secondly, warps must be removed from all the towns, except for spawn. This would make transport a huge deal and would mean that players have to work to get to the next trade centre.

What you're suggesting is the most controversial thing on the server right now. Removing warps requires a large compensation to ALL warp plot owners apart from those in warp c. It would require a massive hub with tp signs to be built with totally fair makeup in order not to change plot value from RC to VC (apart from lower their value compared to C given you just removed all warps). You would also need to accommodate for /sethome and bed spawns. Would they be removed too? If so, what happens to premium. You risk people just abandoning it entirely. If you don't remove sethomes, it could see a boost in premium too. It's a massive thing to change and the economy isn't dead because of them.


Johngi wrote:1. Shulker boxes suddenly have demand, because they would increase the amount of space you have to transport items.

Shulker boxes are no longer in demand since they were added to crates. Since the end is restricted, removing them from crates won't drive up the prices again. I personally have around 75, yootay has a couple dubs, same with kili, kino, amoni, ash, everyone rich or at least with some money has loads of shulkers. This doesn't create demand, it only benifits those with hundreds of them anyway (the rich).


Johngi wrote:2. Transport systems would have demand due to the removing warps part.

Transport systems would have demand but airports cost 10f, metros are free, this ultimately achieves nothing but the player taking a 15 second detour to get from A - B. Not to mention elytras and nether tunnels exist too. Maybe a nether tunnel remake would be amazing but still it doesn't get us any further into solving the economy.


Johngi wrote:3. Having a better pick won't make you more money! The money you can make caps out at the amount you can hold in your inventory and buy at once. Even a new player can buy stacks of the commodities, and travel to sell them, while no matter how good your equipment is and how many shulker boxes you have, you're held back by the amount you can carry at once and the small difference between prices at each trade centre.

Then you've crashed the pickaxe market. Once again, if you have plenty elytras, plenty rockets, plenty shulkers, then the inventory limit isn't an issue. People can make several trips no bother with elytras. New players can buy stacks of commodities but they can't carry as much as rich can. Essentially, rich get richer, poor get richer too but the balance of the inflation keeps the values of the money the same over the time of about a year. Even though at first people can get their money further, after everyone starts to get richier, people will charge more (like cudley is in his rip off rc shop - bruh like whats up with your prices xD).


Johngi wrote:I have to quickly point out that the differences have to be *tiny*. If the difference between prices is F2, a full inventory makes F4736 in arbitrage. That's pretty big for a new player. With full shulker boxes, that gets multiplied by 27, or F127872. Again, a lot. However, if the difference in prices is at most F0.2, full shulker boxes makes F12787.20 and full inventory makes F473 profit. (Though, again, full shulker boxes' value decreases once you account in the time it takes to load and actually find where to

I could fill 27 shulkers in my main inventory, 7 shulkers in my main bar, 1 in offhand, another 27 in an ender chest. I could carry around 1674 stacks of items in 1 go. If they were a difference of 1f I would make 1.6k a trip. I sethome there, head home, pick up the other shulkers and buy another 1674 stacks of items. I /home back and there's another 1.6k in around 5 minutes. I'd be down for that but think about the new players. They couldn't keep up with that in any way, and even if they made some, the amount of rich people would increase and their chances of getting their decrease with it as rich goes from being 250k mark to 500k mark to 1 million mark and so on. Inflation would be a massive issue long term. Short term, this fixes everything but look in even a months time, it'll wreck everything.


Johngi wrote:So, even if you have a huge amount of resources at your disposal, the amount of money you make isn't that much bigger. Not only that but having shulker boxes increases the amount of time it takes to load up, which decreases profit per hour.

I believe what I stated above proves this theory wrong in that with 75 shulkers, I can sure make more profit than a new player who may know what to do, but doesn't have that elytra and shulkers I do.


Johngi wrote:4. There are better things to do if you have the resources. Being a merchant means making small profits on each run repeatedly, which is reliable but really slow and requires lots of resources to make
5. It's more exciting than mining. Being a merchant means you get to explore the world of hello miners, rather than start making your first pieces of money at the bottom of a mineshaft in ordinary mc terrain.

As of right now, the building and architecture is where most profit is to be made. Talk to rich people and do jobs for them is how people make money. Amoni made their millions off contracting gov and partially scamming them for insane rates. D0dley made hundreds of k's off DOME but it went straight into the city. Ara essentially worked with the WPT and made fair chunks off them. Yootay is just swag, Kili sells a lot, and that's the way people make money. They don't make it off mining cobble and thinking it's thrilling. Starting down a mineshaft is the only way players have right now and gov removed that with the cobble being made finite. Adding this, as stated, benefits those with resources MORE than those without giving a lopsided issue here.


Johngi wrote:So, there's my suggestion. Of course, I have most probably overlooked some extremely important thing that everyone will spam me about, but that's not for here.

With every suggestion, people agree, people disagree but that's why we make them. Without intense scrutiny of the suggestion then things can go horribly wrong. It's partially the communities job to make sure nothing happens to the server that everyone doesn't want and most of the time, we don't mean to sound so aggressive towards each other or act like we completely hate them for their views. I personally dive into most suggestions because it effects me as a player therefore I believe I should share my opinion on the matter too. I don't dislike you as a person or anything, I just don't agree with you. What I'm saying is nobody means to be hateful or anything but it happens when people who don't respect the discussion come in. It always happens and it's nothing to be worried of.
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Re: [ECONOMY] A Redesigned Government Trade Centre - DISCUSS

Postby Johngi » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:08 pm

Hmm, I see. I'd like to hear other opinions too, ofc, but that's exactly the kind of answer I was expecting :p

Also the "that's not for here" part was for the original thread in the non discussion section.
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Re: [ECONOMY] A Redesigned Government Trade Centre - DISCUSS

Postby ~Doodle » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:58 pm

Johngi wrote:Hmm, I see. I'd like to hear other opinions too, ofc, but that's exactly the kind of answer I was expecting :p

Also the "that's not for here" part was for the original thread in the non discussion section.


Ah sorry, I read it as part of the discussion feed. Hey, props to you for taking the time to make a suggestion though, it takes ages and a lot of thought!
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