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[Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

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[Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby ~Doodle » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Suggestion topic: viewtopic.php?f=299&t=34627

~Doodle wrote:Hello everyone.

A much discussed topic to this day, and has been since around mid 2017 is allowing the grinding penalty to be removed. The reason I bring this up is I have been on this sever 4 odd years now and all the time I have to look for new ways to make money. As of right now, the only stable way I can get it is by offering services, hence the reason I am now in the management for DOME. I also have some shares in bushiness meaning if I'm not making much money, I know every month I will get 10-20k if the company is doing well.
Back in 2018 when I was most active on HM, the way I was making money was either mining cobble and then I found gold farms. Arakorni89 gave me access to his huge gold farm for F400 or so and I could make at least 1k an hour. The problem was, gov didn't buy gold or at least not for a reasonable price. I worked out Da_Kili15 was the best bet as he always had gold for F1.5 an ingot to sell to. However, this wasn't reliable as at any time Kili could decide to remove it. Another problem was everyone was selling to him too therefore there was nowhere to sell this gold. The other problem was there wasn't a bounty for killing the pigmen therefore it was pointless continuing if the gold wasn't able to be sold.
Later in the year, I looked into stone and how much you could really make. I found a gen which could do around 65,000/hour on the server and then I built. This meant I had access to stone in an instant. Problem was, it would require a lot of grinding and a lot of pickaxes to do any length of time meaning you had to always be focused on the game, not on your phone or on another monitor. With me also not being able to be at my PC at all times, this meant I had to keep stopping and starting therefore making the entire process highly inefficient. For this reason, I no longer use my insane gen as well as the fact there was talk about making stone just a regular chestshop, not adminshop.
I then moved onto fishing around late march to which was great with the fishing plugin. I could make F700 in around 15 minutes (if I was extremely lucky) which in turn meant I could spend more on employment and helping out players. However, a few weeks back Spartan announced the plugin would detect what size of water you were in which meant afk fishing was rendered useless. Throughout this time I also attempted mob farms but they were impossible as there was no bounty for spawner spawned mobs.

We are now back to square one, no solid way to make money than in an existing multi-million company that only a select few could ever get into such position. New players are in the exact same situation but don't have schematica or loads of money to buy materials for build projects or whatever. There is no way to make money anymore and the community have made countless attempts to get staff to see this. Other suggestions removing the grinding penalty include:

Discussion: Remove Grinding Penalty/Detection - Discussion
Yes: 32 No: 5
Discussion: Remove Autofishers
[Discussion] Adding wither bounty (poll)
Yes: 19 No: 8
Bring Mob Grinding Back!!
[Suggestion] Afk passes
Add Wither Bounty Back
Yes: 35 No: 21

The big problem is, all that is ever brought up is speculation about the economy and the same points keep being made but ultimately nobody actually knows what will happen and how it will effect the server. I want to bring up the vote that was made back in march of 2016 and the results. The vote topic can be found here. There were the ultimate votes to the topic:

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Options:
A. Keep the current situation.
B. Make it impossible to get mobbounty from mobs in controlled situations (what is commonly referred to as 'mobspawners', 'grinders', 'mob-farms', et cetera. Significantly raise the mobbounty, so that players can make money by slaying mobs they encounter in the wilderness. 'mobspawners', 'grinders', and 'mob-farms' can still be used to gather items and XP.
C. Lower the mobbounty for aggressive mobs
D. Lower the spawnrate for aggressive mobs
E. Ban the usage of mobspawners and mobgrinders


What I propose if these topics aren't showing to staff the community wants grinding back, we retake the vote that is now 3 years old and see if people's attitudes have changed. This will give a definite decision on what staff should do instead of having to constantly respond to the abundance of topics being made.

If you could leave your opinion, it would be greatly appreciated!

~Doodle
Last edited by ~Doodle on Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby DR_StevenStrange » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:13 am

The biggest problems with bringing grinding back are that 1. we would see a lot more bans for afk grinding, 2. people would go back to grinding instead of keeping their shops stocked and keeping our economy flowing, 3. there wouldnt be a need for jobs, so new jobs wouldnt be created nor would new players stay because of the lack of jobs.
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Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby Cheerios32 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:17 am

Also you say "remove mobgrinders"

er, how?
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Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby ~Doodle » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:07 am

Cheerios32 wrote:Also you say "remove mobgrinders"

er, how?


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Couldn't find where I said that xD
"When ever i find the Key to success, someone always changes the lock." - Doodle2k17

"I would be enjoying my holiday right now, but I'm to lazy to sleep" - Doodle2k18

"The army might be the safest job apart from getting shot at." - Doodle 2k19

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Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby ~Doodle » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:39 am

DR_StevenStrange wrote:The biggest problems with bringing grinding back are that 1. we would see a lot more bans for afk grinding, 2. people would go back to grinding instead of keeping their shops stocked and keeping our economy flowing, 3. there wouldnt be a need for jobs, so new jobs wouldnt be created nor would new players stay because of the lack of jobs.


1) Not if people are using the ability correctly, even further, that is your job to moderate so saying it's more work for us really isn't an excuse when talking to normal players.

2) I would like to quote from Richie back in 2017.
I again see the downsides here and how it is unfair that mob grinding makes more money. But in my case I have actually used funds made from mob grinding to open up businesses that can actually help new players. When used correctly, mob grinding can be effective in growing and starting businesses. A nether spawner can be bought when a player is fairly new to the server by working for about 3 hours total (mining cobble and selling it to the gov and then buying a nether spawner for roughly 2.5k) and then used to start a business. I am not a big fan of growing a business solely on waiting for new players to join because it is a very slow process that as Harry mentioned did not yield great reward. To me this is not really mob grinding hurting him, but rather him not taking the chance to grind mobs. At any point in his time he could have started grinding mobs to grow his business but he chose not to. I would also like to point out that he admits that renting apartments does not make much money and if the only thing keeping a person playing on the server is waiting around for a while for a new player to join so that player can gain a bit of money to fund his or her project it really hurts the player because he or she won't see much growth and may end up quitting.


Richie's point is there isn't any solid ways to make money and if you want to employ or start something crazy, you have to grind day in day out all for 10k and that's nothing if you need 500k of land regioned. The problem is you keep nerfing all the ways of making money and then make up reasons on how they would ruin the community if it stayed. There is no good ways to make money and, trust me, I've tried everything. This is why I gave a new player a full diamond pick and enough food to do them a while, showed the gov trade and showed the pm. They mined for 3k and were on the verge of giving up when I showed the plots. They found one in a city and managed to buy it. They then built a small house for a bar but it wasn't suiting to the landscape so I ordered a modern apartment design for 8k and am building it for them. The total cost of the building is 11k. How do you expect a new player to grind out 11k in cobble when they start, when they don't have an eff5 pick. To make 9k, that is an enderchest full of shulkers that are full of stone (i.e 13.5 dubs). I don't see any way a new player is willing to grind out that much in PM just for a plot and a design which they can only rent out apartments in.
There's simply no way new players or us can make money than wait over time and do a lot of work. Grinding will allow new players to get those starting funds faster and understand the amazing things you can do if you just have the money. It will stop people just leaving because they have lost interest because they will have enough money for 2 plots and a house, they can start a buissnes, they can start a base. It's in the description on the server, saying you can start a buissnes. Well everyone can but to start a buissnes you need some money.
I would also like to mention, you said "people would go back to grinding instead of keeping their shops stocked". Where's your proof of this? The server will always need shops and saying people won't stock because they can make money grinding isn't true. When you have money, you want to build something cool. To do that, you need materials and those materials you have to buy somewhere. Anyone with a single braincell will understand shops will be even more profitable given there will be more money to spend on projects meaning more stock bought to build these things. Grinding will allow amazing things to be built on the server like Jurassic Park and Bloom's Disney world. Without money, these can't be created and you are telling us, you don't want a good way of making money to do these things with ease.

Richie has already made it clear, if you can manage the server correctly, grinding will work. So stop making reasons not to and look at reason to do.
3 people like this post.
"When ever i find the Key to success, someone always changes the lock." - Doodle2k17

"I would be enjoying my holiday right now, but I'm to lazy to sleep" - Doodle2k18

"The army might be the safest job apart from getting shot at." - Doodle 2k19

https://imgur.com/EHjyQ8T

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Member since somewhere in the early months of 2015!

Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby Cheerios32 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:15 am

~Doodle wrote:
Cheerios32 wrote:Also you say "remove mobgrinders"

er, how?


Image

Couldn't find where I said that xD


Doodle but earlier wrote:B. Make it impossible to get mobbounty from mobs in controlled situations (what is commonly referred to as 'mobspawners', 'grinders', 'mob-farms', et cetera. Significantly raise the mobbounty, so that players can make money by slaying mobs they encounter in the wilderness. 'mobspawners', 'grinders', and 'mob-farms' can still be used to gather items and XP.
Net worth:Somehow about 100k

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[Console -> me] :(
------------------------------
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[HelpOp] Senior-Mod ~FrostedWheetos: bullying spart
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Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby ~Bloom » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:19 pm

From a business point of view I agree with this.

But from a personal one I don’t. I agree with strange as I’ve been here through it all. I’ve been here for 6 years and all people used to do each day was join to grind mobs.
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Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby ~Doodle » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:29 pm

Cheerios32 wrote:
~Doodle wrote:
Cheerios32 wrote:Also you say "remove mobgrinders"

er, how?


Image

Couldn't find where I said that xD


Doodle but earlier wrote:B. Make it impossible to get mobbounty from mobs in controlled situations (what is commonly referred to as 'mobspawners', 'grinders', 'mob-farms', et cetera. Significantly raise the mobbounty, so that players can make money by slaying mobs they encounter in the wilderness. 'mobspawners', 'grinders', and 'mob-farms' can still be used to gather items and XP.


Oh, in my afk passes topic. Idk it was a topic I wrote because nothing was working. Looking back, it would never have worked anyway.
"When ever i find the Key to success, someone always changes the lock." - Doodle2k17

"I would be enjoying my holiday right now, but I'm to lazy to sleep" - Doodle2k18

"The army might be the safest job apart from getting shot at." - Doodle 2k19

https://imgur.com/EHjyQ8T

Image

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Founder of Cape Coral!

Battle Palace Manager/Developer

Member since somewhere in the early months of 2015!

Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby Gerhard » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:07 pm

Remove it. It is way too sensitive, even when fighting off an army of mobs in the wild. And those complaining that people wont stock shops....yes they will. Do not assume anything you know nothing about whether they will stock their shops or not, when you DO NOT know them. If a select few resort to grinding, so be it. Let them play the game how they want to.
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Re: [Discussion] Remove grinding penalty & retake the vote

Postby ~Http » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:50 pm

I mean if I could grind for money I'd have a reason to come back. The server isnt much fun when you hsve to count every penny and you dont have any solid way to get money. You could put the mob bounty to like 1-3f and id be happy
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