Ban appeal

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Re: Ban appeal

Postby Cheerios32 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:11 pm

CommandoBeta wrote:
If he hit you several times and knew that another hit would kill you, then him trying to hit you at that moment could indeed be considered an attempt to kill you.

Having said that, the bantopic does not contain evidence that this is the case. I am certainly not saying that either of you is not speaking the truth, but the bantopic does not at this point contain sufficient evidence of the attempted murder for which FMDIAMOND has been banned.


How could the ban topic ever contain such information? As we can never truly tell what a player was thinking upon doing something we must merely guess. In this instance, backed up by what ~Luc said, it sounds as though the intent was to kill. In lack of better evidence I'd argue that is a valid conclusion.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby CommandoBeta » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:18 pm

Cheerios32 wrote:
CommandoBeta wrote:


How could the ban topic ever contain such information? As we can never truly tell what a player was thinking upon doing something we must merely guess. In this instance, backed up by what ~Luc said, it sounds as though the intent was to kill. In lack of better evidence I'd argue that is a valid conclusion.


Proving intent is a problem that any legal system in the world faces. It is indeed not possible to look into someone's head and see what their desired result of an action was. Therefore, this intent has to be concluded from their behaviour.

All the relevant information that the bantopic contains right now is that FMDIAMOND tried to harm someone with fire, and that these people want to press charges. However as I've explained before in this topic, trying to harm someone is not the same as killing them. That means that the supplied evidence is insufficient.

What would be enough? As I said, FMDIAMOND having hit someone several times with a weapon, and then hitting them again while he knows - or could reasonably know - that this hit could kill them, would be enough. So a video showing him hitting another person repeatedly with a Thunder Hammer would be enough. Hitting someone once with a Thunder Hammer doesn't kill them (as far as I know). So hitting someone once would be merely harming someone, and not trying to kill them. Hitting someone three times with a Thunder Hammer will (as far as I know) be enough to kill them. So if he hit them twice and is trying to hit them again, that would show intent to kill.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby Cheerios32 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:42 pm

CommandoBeta wrote:
Cheerios32 wrote:
CommandoBeta wrote:


How could the ban topic ever contain such information? As we can never truly tell what a player was thinking upon doing something we must merely guess. In this instance, backed up by what ~Luc said, it sounds as though the intent was to kill. In lack of better evidence I'd argue that is a valid conclusion.


Proving intent is a problem that any legal system in the world faces. It is indeed not possible to look into someone's head and see what their desired result of an action was. Therefore, this intent has to be concluded from their behaviour.

All the relevant information that the bantopic contains right now is that FMDIAMOND tried to harm someone with fire, and that these people want to press charges. However as I've explained before in this topic, trying to harm someone is not the same as killing them. That means that the supplied evidence is insufficient.

What would be enough? As I said, FMDIAMOND having hit someone several times with a weapon, and then hitting them again while he knows - or could reasonably know - that this hit could kill them, would be enough. So a video showing him hitting another person repeatedly with a Thunder Hammer would be enough. Hitting someone once with a Thunder Hammer doesn't kill them (as far as I know). So hitting someone once would be merely harming someone, and not trying to kill them. Hitting someone three times with a Thunder Hammer will (as far as I know) be enough to kill them. So if he hit them twice and is trying to hit them again, that would show intent to kill.


In other words: we need to know how many times diamond used the hammer. However, what ~Luc said implies intent to kill. Therefore it should come down to whether or not you wish to press charges Luc. Do you?
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby FMDIAMOND » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:15 pm

~Luc wrote:
CommandoBeta wrote:The rules mention an 'attempt' to do something. Doing something that could possibly have a certain effect is not equal to attempting to reach that effect. If you use your fancy redstone machine when the server is overloaded it might be the final drop that crashes the server. That does not mean that using a redstone machine on a busy Friday night is an attempt to crash the server.

In other words: when someone is punished for attempting to commit a crime, there needs to be proof that they did indeed want to reach that illegal result. Doing something that might lead to the illegal result is in itself not enough.

The difference in my case is he hit me multiple times in rc while i was looking at my phone, and when i looked up from my phone and moved away he was still trying to hit where I was originally standing, while i was at 2 hearts. If I hadn't moved, he would've killed me, so I would consider that to be reasonable evidence that he had the mens rea in this action, or the intent to kill.

also you moved about 2 blocks luc (I could of still hit him). and cheerios, like beta said, luc can't press charges until someone provides sufficient evidence (such as a video) is provided showing my killing him
Last edited by FMDIAMOND on Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby ~Luc » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:20 pm

Cheerios32 wrote:
Cheerios32 wrote:
CommandoBeta wrote:
Proving intent is a problem that any legal system in the world faces. It is indeed not possible to look into someone's head and see what their desired result of an action was. Therefore, this intent has to be concluded from their behaviour.

All the relevant information that the bantopic contains right now is that FMDIAMOND tried to harm someone with fire, and that these people want to press charges. However as I've explained before in this topic, trying to harm someone is not the same as killing them. That means that the supplied evidence is insufficient.

What would be enough? As I said, FMDIAMOND having hit someone several times with a weapon, and then hitting them again while he knows - or could reasonably know - that this hit could kill them, would be enough. So a video showing him hitting another person repeatedly with a Thunder Hammer would be enough. Hitting someone once with a Thunder Hammer doesn't kill them (as far as I know). So hitting someone once would be merely harming someone, and not trying to kill them. Hitting someone three times with a Thunder Hammer will (as far as I know) be enough to kill them. So if he hit them twice and is trying to hit them again, that would show intent to kill.


In other words: we need to know how many times diamond used the hammer. However, what ~Luc said implies intent to kill. Therefore it should come down to whether or not you wish to press charges Luc. Do you?

As I said before, I do. The reason being that we need to set a standard on the server that such actions should not be done. I can't speak for what happened to the other guy, but I do know that had I not realized I was burning and kept looking away, I would've died. also FMDIAMOND, i moved 2 blocks away because my hands were full, but i still moved away and turned around, and after you punched the air you ran away.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby FMDIAMOND » Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:31 am

In other words: we need to know how many times diamond used the hammer. However, what ~Luc said implies intent to kill. Therefore it should come down to whether or not you wish to press charges Luc. Do you?
As I said before, I do. The reason being that we need to set a standard on the server that such actions should not be done. I can't speak for what happened to the other guy, but I do know that had I not realized I was burning and kept looking away, I would've died. also FMDIAMOND, i moved 2 blocks away because my hands were full, but i still moved away and turned around, and after you punched the air you ran away.

But you 'looking' at me isn't gonna stop you from burning, nor would of it stopped me from continuing (if I intended to kill you, which I didn't).
I don't see why your still trying to justify this, saying I intended to kill you, if I intended to kill you wouldn't of I just killed you?.. like I said I could of hit you a couple more times and I would of killed you, but I didn't as I didn't want to kill anyone, if you cant understand this or listen to beta for what he has to say, then i dont know why you keep the same "you intended to kill me" argument, its just not rational.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby ~Luc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:36 am

FMDIAMOND wrote:
In other words: we need to know how many times diamond used the hammer. However, what ~Luc said implies intent to kill. Therefore it should come down to whether or not you wish to press charges Luc. Do you?
As I said before, I do. The reason being that we need to set a standard on the server that such actions should not be done. I can't speak for what happened to the other guy, but I do know that had I not realized I was burning and kept looking away, I would've died. also FMDIAMOND, i moved 2 blocks away because my hands were full, but i still moved away and turned around, and after you punched the air you ran away.

But you 'looking' at me isn't gonna stop you from burning, nor would of it stopped me from continuing (if I intended to kill you, which I didn't).
I don't see why your still trying to justify this, saying I intended to kill you, if I intended to kill you wouldn't of I just killed you?.. like I said I could of hit you a couple more times and I would of killed you, but I didn't as I didn't want to kill anyone, if you cant understand this or listen to beta for what he has to say, then i dont know why you keep the same "you intended to kill me" argument, its just not rational.

Going around and hitting people with a weapon knowing that it will do damage and is against the rules is irrational. The fact is that had I not moved I would've died, and once again, after i moved you hit where I was standing then ran away. You know what you did was wrong, I already said I can't speak for the other player so I don't necessarily believe you deserved 10 days ban but you definitely deserved a punishment for at the very least trolling because that is exactly what you were doing when you chose to do it to multiple people. You had the intent of breaking the rules and that's exactly what you were doing.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby FMDIAMOND » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:50 am

~Luc wrote:
FMDIAMOND wrote:
In other words: we need to know how many times diamond used the hammer. However, what ~Luc said implies intent to kill. Therefore it should come down to whether or not you wish to press charges Luc. Do you?
As I said before, I do. The reason being that we need to set a standard on the server that such actions should not be done. I can't speak for what happened to the other guy, but I do know that had I not realized I was burning and kept looking away, I would've died. also FMDIAMOND, i moved 2 blocks away because my hands were full, but i still moved away and turned around, and after you punched the air you ran away.

But you 'looking' at me isn't gonna stop you from burning, nor would of it stopped me from continuing (if I intended to kill you, which I didn't).
I don't see why your still trying to justify this, saying I intended to kill you, if I intended to kill you wouldn't of I just killed you?.. like I said I could of hit you a couple more times and I would of killed you, but I didn't as I didn't want to kill anyone, if you cant understand this or listen to beta for what he has to say, then i dont know why you keep the same "you intended to kill me" argument, its just not rational.

Going around and hitting people with a weapon knowing that it will do damage and is against the rules is irrational. The fact is that had I not moved I would've died, and once again, after i moved you hit where I was standing then ran away. You know what you did was wrong, I already said I can't speak for the other player so I don't necessarily believe you deserved 10 days ban but you definitely deserved a punishment for at the very least trolling because that is exactly what you were doing when you chose to do it to multiple people. You had the intent of breaking the rules and that's exactly what you were doing.

yes I know what I did was wrong, I've stated it multiple times, and yes I shouldn't of hit you, but no rule states that hitting someone and not killing someone should be a banable offence, and again you cant comprehend for some reason that I could of killed you if I wanted to. there is no sufficient evidence to prove that fact otherwise, as beta (former head admin) stated, you need sufficient evidence to prosecute someone, yet not evidence of me actually wanting to kill you was provided, I did confess instantly, to hitting you but never intending to kill you, the only way I could get a ban is if a video was provided, or somehow you went into my head to that point in time and read my thoughts for if I wanted to kill you or not.
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Last edited by FMDIAMOND on Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby ~Luc » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:02 am

FMDIAMOND wrote:
~Luc wrote:
FMDIAMOND wrote:But you 'looking' at me isn't gonna stop you from burning, nor would of it stopped me from continuing (if I intended to kill you, which I didn't).
I don't see why your still trying to justify this, saying I intended to kill you, if I intended to kill you wouldn't of I just killed you?.. like I said I could of hit you a couple more times and I would of killed you, but I didn't as I didn't want to kill anyone, if you cant understand this or listen to beta for what he has to say, then i dont know why you keep the same "you intended to kill me" argument, its just not rational.

Going around and hitting people with a weapon knowing that it will do damage and is against the rules is irrational. The fact is that had I not moved I would've died, and once again, after i moved you hit where I was standing then ran away. You know what you did was wrong, I already said I can't speak for the other player so I don't necessarily believe you deserved 10 days ban but you definitely deserved a punishment for at the very least trolling because that is exactly what you were doing when you chose to do it to multiple people. You had the intent of breaking the rules and that's exactly what you were doing.

yes I know what I did was wrong, I've stated it multiple times, and yes I shouldn't of hit you, but no rule states that hitting someone and not killing someone should be a banable offence, and again you cant comprehend for some reason that I could of killed you if I wanted to. there is no sufficient evidence to prove that fact otherwise, as beta (former head admin) stated, you need sufficient evidence to prosecute someone, yet not evidence of me actually wanting to kill you was provided, I did confess instantly, to hitting you but never intending to kill you, the only way I could get a ban is if a video was provided, or somehow you went into my head to that point in time and read my thoughts for if I wanted to kill you or not.

What you did is just as easily considered trolling, which if done multiple times (which you did considering you did it on multiple occasions) is a bannable offence. Hopefully you have learned your lesson to stop trolling at the very least.
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Re: Ban appeal

Postby FMDIAMOND » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:11 am

how is it trolling when no one was at an inconvenience, I would of had to have killed you to make it trolling, you went inconvenienced in any way, so if you really want to complain that I interrupted you by 'trolling' then you should be blaming your self as you spent the time to report me, and write these messages.
so basically what's happened here is that, I've proved you wrong about the illegal pvp rule, now your defeated in that sector you've moved on to a different rule and have attempted to start all over again with out any proper evidence, to keep you dignity as I have lost mine.
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