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HelloMiners Forum Reporting Banned from HelloMiners? (Appeal) gbt2008642


(Appeal) gbt2008642

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(Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby gbt2001 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:15 am

My initial post was in response to seeing the ban, and realizing that staff would be quick to remove my property (which from what I have heard, has been true). This appeal is more organized and include logs, seperation of appeals for each report, and organized reasoning.

The Appeal of "Killaura"

SpartanPride7 stated that

KillAura is a 3-month ban, just like every other hack except x-ray is. Same thing with jump hacks, speed hacks, etc. When someone uses multiple of these hacks at once, like flying and speed hacks, it gets the same 3-month ban as just fly hacking would alone.


While this appears to illustrate I should be banned for 3 months, the thing lacking from this statement is support from the rules, the evidence provided, as well as past precedent.

I will start from the rule side to invalidate this statement. As stated in your only piece of evidence I even committed a crime, my apology, I stated the reason I did this and what I was doing.

I was trying to watch stranger things at the same time


I didn't have to click with the sword and could instead just walk around and kill the mobs. While they still did damage, I see why action was taken.


This explictly details that I was utilizing a mod that allowed me to avoid the AFK kick without being active as I was busy watching stanger things. This is stated in the rules as a seven day ban as shown below from the direct

Rules wrote:Using any method or device to avoid becoming AFK while not playing actively:
A week 1 ban. If a player has been caught doing this before, the punishment will be more severe.


Now to discuss the portion on past precedent. Spartan states that the use of any hacks (excluding xray) is a 3 month ban. This precedent however is not illustrated in recent bans and seems to be something that isn't demonstrated in modern bans. In my first example, I want to illustrate the ban on thetruetechie. As you can see in this link to his report https://www.hellominers.com/viewtopic.php?f=298&t=34692&p=345640&hilit=thetruetechie#p345640, he his not just using an afk machine. He is in fact using a mod known as auto-fish, which allows the person to fish without even needing to be at the computer. This ban automatically casts the line, pulls in the fish when it detects a fish being caught, then recasts the line. This lays out the concept that any mod that is used while afk is subject to afk rules, not the old concept that is not, stated in the rules and was used when mods didn't know what to do and banned indiscriminately of the mod in the past.

I want to point out that this concept spartan stated seems to be a "idk what to do" reaction rather than something that is illustrated in the more recent bans of another player. The reasoning for this is the banning of Hullominers for nuking (Added there ban reports below). Different sentences for the same ban (since Airfriz2001 was banned for nuking also) have been created recently due to a precedent established recently to better deal with hacking when it occur. The precedent is one that relates a hack to something within the rules, and bans them based on it. Nuker is related to xray in the case of Hullominers. The basis for this is illustrated in the video, which depicts it mining out the stone around and leaving the ore. This is why it was treated as an xray once a solid consideration was done. While not applied in the past, it is applied now on more modern reports, and should be applied to my ban as well since I was banned after this new ban procedure was established.

https://www.hellominers.com/viewtopic.php?f=298&t=34871
https://www.hellominers.com/viewtopic.php?f=298&t=30813&p=318080&hilit=speed#p318080

The mod I used should be treated on such a precedent. It allowed me to afk kill mobs at the swamp spider shrine so I could watch stranger things without looking at my computer. Under this precedent, it would be considered an afk mod. My ban in essence, should be changed to follow the afk rules just as the ban for nuking is changed to be seen as xray.

The Appeal of Duping

Admin SpartanPride7

I asked Oza if he ever approved this machine and he said he simply saw it but never understood what it did.


Senior-Mod Cheerios32

Cheerios32 wrote:
CommandoBeta wrote:
gbt2001 wrote:I want to point out that this machine was shown to staff in the past (oza) and they shared no problem with it. It didn't seem illegal at all and should not be considered duping.


This seems to be an important aspect to this case that warrants an explicit official reply.

Staffmembers represent the management of the server and play a key role in the enforcement of the rules. Because they are the ones to decide on punishment, they are the main interpreters of server rules.

Because of this, players will look to the staff for guidance on how to interpret the rules. And if a staff member gives a player the reasonable belief that a certain action is in accordance with the rules, then that belief should weigh heavily in deciding if a player should be punished for that action. After all, it seems perfectly reasonable - and desirable - for players to base their actions on what staff let them know about the rules.

Of course, it remains to be seen on a case to case basis whether a player has a reasonable belief that they acted in accordance with the rules. For instance if two staff members contradict each other about a rule, a player can be expected to ask a third, higher ranking staff member their opinion.

Based from what I saw in (the first pages of) this topic, a staffmember saw the machine and said nothing about it being illegal. That seems to be a strong indicator that the player was reasonable in believing that what he did was legal.


There's quite a significant issue with that: to the best of my knowledge, said staff member did not know what the machine did, only that it related to concrete. Had this staff member known it was for changing the colours via a glitch and still said it was fine, then that's a different matter altogether and I would fully agree with what you said. However, if you just say "here's a concrete machine is it okay", without saying what it does then it can't really be called "getting staff approval". As the machine could only be identified retrospectively from the linked video, it is not fair to say that the staff member's ignorance excuses abusing the glitch. Whether the glitch is duping or not is another question.


As stated by Cheerios and Spartan above, they were told by oza he did not know what the machine did, or how it worked. Based on logs I have found from the day I showed, this is demonstrated to not be the case.\

[+] Ozapenguins interaction over the machine
[15:04:54] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <Mod ~Oza> wbb
[15:05:02] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <~Gbt> ty
[15:05:09] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [+] DaMaxiKing007 joined the game
[15:05:15] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] made a machine that changes the color of concrete powder
[15:05:19] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [+] jjayo joined the game
[15:05:21] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Mod ~Oza -> me] tf?
[15:05:24] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Mod ~Oza -> me] how?
[15:05:28] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Mod ~Oza -> me] Is that even possible?
[15:05:36] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] yes
[15:05:45] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Mod ~Oza -> me] where it at
[15:05:51] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Quickly reply to the last player to message you.
[15:05:51] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] /r <message>
[15:05:51] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [-] jjayo left the game
[15:05:56] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [-] DaMaxiKing007 left the game
[15:06:00] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] -308/127/3225

Oza then leaves due to disconnect then returns a little bit later

[15:36:56] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Mod ~Oza -> me] ok
[15:36:59] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Mod ~Oza -> me] where it at?
[15:37:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] You are not permitted to do that. Are you in the right mode?
[15:37:08] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] DaMaxiKing007 died
[15:37:08] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Player DaMaxiKing007 took their own life.
[15:37:15] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] -300/119/3225
[15:37:30] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Warping to airport.
[15:37:30] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Teleportation will commence in 2 seconds. Don't move.
[15:37:30] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Balance: F635,268.11
[15:37:32] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Teleportation commencing...
[15:38:04] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] DaMaxiKing007 died
[15:38:04] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Player DaMaxiKing007 took their own life.
[15:38:04] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] close to flower farm
[15:38:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [+] TANKZZZ joined the game
[15:38:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Welcome TANKZZZ to HelloMiners!
[15:38:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] TANKZZZ has made the advancement [Getting an Upgrade]
[15:38:06] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Agora] Welcome ~Gbt to Agora. Shop for an amazing selection, at amazing prices.
[15:38:15] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Shop] You bought 64 Concrete Powder from natedogg723 for F30.
[15:38:23] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Teleportation will commence in 2 seconds. Don't move.
[15:38:25] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Teleportation commencing...
[15:38:33] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <Gz3> Welcome TANKZZZ!
[15:38:36] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] McNuggets88 fell from a high place
[15:39:07] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Server] Notice: Staff team will not replace any loss of rare items due to item frames or mythic mobs glitches!
[15:39:10] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] You are not permitted to do that. Are you in the right mode?
[15:40:00] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] You have 27 messages! Type /mail read to view your mail.
[15:40:00] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] this one
[15:40:05] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] watch
[15:40:28] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] TANKZZZ has made the advancement [Stone Age]
[15:40:35] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] look in the chest
[15:40:48] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] this works with turning red sand to sand
[15:40:49] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <~Cake> I need an aerial photo, how would I do that?
[15:40:52] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] this one
[15:40:57] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] You are not permitted to do that. Are you in the right mode?
[15:41:00] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Punch your protection to remove the lock. (Right click for entities)
[15:41:00] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] That Chest is not registered!
[15:41:08] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] TANKZZZ has made the advancement [We Need to Go Deeper]
[15:41:16] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] one sec
[15:41:18] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Warping to airport.
[15:41:18] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Teleportation will commence in 2 seconds. Don't move.
[15:41:19] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <DaMaxiKing007> place dirt blocks
[15:41:20] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] Teleportation commencing...
[15:41:21] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] will make more



[15:48:45] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] wait did you see the powder machine?
[15:48:51] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <~Cake> Oza can you take an aerial photo of something and discord it to me pls?
[15:48:55] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Mod ~Oza -> me] yeah but i don't get it
[15:48:59] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <Mod ~Oza> no
[15:49:02] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <~Cake> D:
[15:49:02] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <mrminer02> that's mod abuse
[15:49:03] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <Gz3> yes...
[15:49:11] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [Server] Are you a new player and need help getting started? If so, look in the Tab and do /msg to the people with PlayerHelper in their name!
[15:49:12] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] <~Cake> Is it, damn it
[15:49:25] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] well at least nate can finally make concrete equal cost
[15:49:32] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] and lower
[15:49:39] [Client thread/INFO]: [CHAT] [me -> Mod ~Oza] since we can ignore dye cost now


As you can see from the logs posted, oza was clearly demonstrated the machine and saw it in action. He saw how it was changing the sand to red sand and powder to different powder. He was explicitly told that it allows for the ignoring of dye costs. From what spartan and cheerios stated, oza failed to mention this when he discussed with staff on the contents of the discussion with me. Oza is clearly shown to have told staff he did not even know what the machine did, which is a misleading detail considering the logs he is shown the machine multiple times just to ensure he saw the machine in action. This kind of misleading directly impacted the decision made by staff since it was implied I was lying when I stated a mod knew of the machine and saw it in action. He illustrated no reaction against the machine and seemed fine with it. This created an indication to me that this machine was legal, since the machine is an exact copy of the ilmango machine and had all the reactions of the redstone shown to him. He was at the machine the components and saw the machine as evidenced by the logs and the photo I am showing below. I again want to remind you he was walking and jumping all over the machine during this incident and was clearly aware of what was going on. He saw in essence the exact same thing the video shows (ilmango tutorial on how to build) except even closer up and with even more access to the exact way the machine was processing the items.

Image


This next part is to clarify something that many people who commented seem to miss. There seems to be an indication that I massively profited off of the machine and produced endless amounts to stock Agora.

SpartanPride7 wrote:The machine is very fast. If you look at just the first 30 seconds of the video you see that. The video is titled "18k/hour". That's 281 stacks of changed concrete with only 2 dye.


The idea I in fact used this machine like this though is in fact a lie. Evidence and reasons for this are I created the machine for nate (who didn't use it) and coreprotect shows I barely used it except when demonstrating and to make a few stacks for testing under a few scenarios to make sure it worked in the location under major lag (as I had been dealing with stone gens breaking down in different lag situations in the same area). In the report under the duping section, they posted photos of coreprotect logs of the amount of powder and sand added and removed from the chest.



As you can see from the photos in the report, the amount of sand transformed into a different type of sand is 8 and a half stacks. The amount of powder, is even less than that (and a majority was done for demonstration purposes to 3 other players). The machine was barely utilized and made virtually 300f at the worst possible scenario to me due to the cost of the inputs. Just reasonably thinking, this is not worth the loss of millions of forsals worth of property and forsals.

This reaction of losing this amount of forsals over something like this is not even a precedent as illustrated by previous bans of jcava5, alexisturnt, and molderion. The actions they did are similar with alex having something that is almost exactly what I did; using one block to create profit. Molderion and Jcava also did something similar such as exploting a glitch, but they were simply fined rather than forced to remove their entire progress on the server.

https://www.hellominers.com/viewtopic.php?f=298&t=33560&p=333878&hilit=alexisturnt#p333878
https://www.hellominers.com/viewtopic.php?f=298&t=18805&hilit=molderion
https://www.hellominers.com/viewtopic.php?f=298&t=10291&hilit=jcava

These players made millions exploiting a glitches while I made a few 100f. None of these players lost all their work and instead were fined the amount that was gained.

Last Thing

One more thing I want to point out. My ban topic was posted more than 2 days after my ban despite rules stating it has to be 24 hours and evidence has to be provided.

Rules wrote:When banning a player for more than 24 hours, a staffmember always has to make a bantopic with evidence within 24 hours of the ban. There are two exceptions to this. If the banned player is an alt-account of an already banned player, the information on the newly banned account will be added to the bantopic of the main account. Secondly, a bantopic will not be made if a player is auto-banned by the Warnings plugin.
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby CudleyNubles » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:36 am

Well made appeal. Oza seriously has some explaining to do.
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby ~Max » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:49 pm

this is a very good appeal! best of luck gbt i really hope you get unbanned but oza really does have some explaining to do...
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby 4K606 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:09 pm

It's not the staff's fault for posting your ban topic late. You have to take in account the fourms where down for a good day.
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby ~Lero » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:18 pm

4K606 wrote:It's not the staff's fault for posting your ban topic late. You have to take in account the fourms where down for a good day.

Yeah I agree, that was one of the weak parts of the appeal. However, none of the staff members communicated that that was the reason the ban report wasn't up. Besides that, GBT does bring up some very fair points here.
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby ~Luc » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:11 pm

I would like to see the staff try and shut this appeal down. All these points are more than fair and completely valid. Especially the ones about Oza and about the other people banned for making money this way. I am noticing a large flip-flop in the way staff is enforcing bans. I recall when we banned alex that certain members of staff (which I will not explicitly single out as I cannot remember how many) were really big on not giving the full ban sentence, and the reform being brought up only at that time when a well respected player was facing an extremely long ban. This is not fair, especially not taking away all of gbt’s money, items and property. @Admins you should be pulling logs of how much money he made off of selling concrete in the time since the machine was built until the last time a block was placed inside of it and doing the math to fine him of that money and only that money he made off of it. You all went completely overboard on this ban and did a sloppy job at compiling evidence. It is really disappointing to see this big of a slip-up happening. Ban fairly as per the precedent that you all set, this isn’t 2013 anymore.
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby gbt2001 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 3:49 pm

Bump

Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby CakeDevil275 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:03 pm

If your banned how did you get these photos? Did you take the exact photos before you got banned thinking "I might need these later"? That aside, great appeal!
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby natedogg723 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:46 pm

CakeDevil275 wrote:If your banned how did you get these photos? Did you take the exact photos before you got banned thinking "I might need these later"? That aside, great appeal!


he either had someone take it for him or he had the picture before.. but both me and gbt thought it was legal as oza had seen the machine and should know if its legal or not and did not say anything. so theres no reason he should be thinking "i might need these later"
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Re: (Appeal) gbt2008642

Postby ~Bloom » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:51 pm

If a staff member approved it and said there was nothing illegal with the machine, technically it’s the staff members fault. So the punishment should be reversed as said player didn’t communicate or inquire about the machine with fellow staffers.
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