My appeal

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Re: My appeal

Postby CudleyNubles » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:09 pm

Why is it that Alex, Jcavalier5 and Molderion all never had their accounts wiped but gbt does? Those players made millions off of what they did gbt merely made thousands.
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Re: My appeal

Postby Tesseract » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:08 pm

I kindly request staff to not demolish Gbt's "The Beau" building which is in North City, because for months I have been making a building that is inspired by Gbt's building. (I am not directly copying the design of the building.)
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Re: My appeal

Postby CommandoBeta » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:57 pm

gbt2001 wrote:I want to point out that this machine was shown to staff in the past (oza) and they shared no problem with it. It didn't seem illegal at all and should not be considered duping.


This seems to be an important aspect to this case that warrants an explicit official reply.

Staffmembers represent the management of the server and play a key role in the enforcement of the rules. Because they are the ones to decide on punishment, they are the main interpreters of server rules.

Because of this, players will look to the staff for guidance on how to interpret the rules. And if a staff member gives a player the reasonable belief that a certain action is in accordance with the rules, then that belief should weigh heavily in deciding if a player should be punished for that action. After all, it seems perfectly reasonable - and desirable - for players to base their actions on what staff let them know about the rules.

Of course, it remains to be seen on a case to case basis whether a player has a reasonable belief that they acted in accordance with the rules. For instance if two staff members contradict each other about a rule, a player can be expected to ask a third, higher ranking staff member their opinion.

Based from what I saw in (the first pages of) this topic, a staffmember saw the machine and said nothing about it being illegal. That seems to be a strong indicator that the player was reasonable in believing that what he did was legal.
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Re: My appeal

Postby Cheerios32 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:46 pm

CommandoBeta wrote:
gbt2001 wrote:I want to point out that this machine was shown to staff in the past (oza) and they shared no problem with it. It didn't seem illegal at all and should not be considered duping.


This seems to be an important aspect to this case that warrants an explicit official reply.

Staffmembers represent the management of the server and play a key role in the enforcement of the rules. Because they are the ones to decide on punishment, they are the main interpreters of server rules.

Because of this, players will look to the staff for guidance on how to interpret the rules. And if a staff member gives a player the reasonable belief that a certain action is in accordance with the rules, then that belief should weigh heavily in deciding if a player should be punished for that action. After all, it seems perfectly reasonable - and desirable - for players to base their actions on what staff let them know about the rules.

Of course, it remains to be seen on a case to case basis whether a player has a reasonable belief that they acted in accordance with the rules. For instance if two staff members contradict each other about a rule, a player can be expected to ask a third, higher ranking staff member their opinion.

Based from what I saw in (the first pages of) this topic, a staffmember saw the machine and said nothing about it being illegal. That seems to be a strong indicator that the player was reasonable in believing that what he did was legal.


There's quite a significant issue with that: to the best of my knowledge, said staff member did not know what the machine did, only that it related to concrete. Had this staff member known it was for changing the colours via a glitch and still said it was fine, then that's a different matter altogether and I would fully agree with what you said. However, if you just say "here's a concrete machine is it okay", without saying what it does then it can't really be called "getting staff approval". As the machine could only be identified retrospectively from the linked video, it is not fair to say that the staff member's ignorance excuses abusing the glitch. Whether the glitch is duping or not is another question.
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Re: My appeal

Postby CommandoBeta » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:20 pm

Cheerios32 wrote:
CommandoBeta wrote:
gbt2001 wrote:I want to point out that this machine was shown to staff in the past (oza) and they shared no problem with it. It didn't seem illegal at all and should not be considered duping.


This seems to be an important aspect to this case that warrants an explicit official reply.

Staffmembers represent the management of the server and play a key role in the enforcement of the rules. Because they are the ones to decide on punishment, they are the main interpreters of server rules.

Because of this, players will look to the staff for guidance on how to interpret the rules. And if a staff member gives a player the reasonable belief that a certain action is in accordance with the rules, then that belief should weigh heavily in deciding if a player should be punished for that action. After all, it seems perfectly reasonable - and desirable - for players to base their actions on what staff let them know about the rules.

Of course, it remains to be seen on a case to case basis whether a player has a reasonable belief that they acted in accordance with the rules. For instance if two staff members contradict each other about a rule, a player can be expected to ask a third, higher ranking staff member their opinion.

Based from what I saw in (the first pages of) this topic, a staffmember saw the machine and said nothing about it being illegal. That seems to be a strong indicator that the player was reasonable in believing that what he did was legal.


There's quite a significant issue with that: to the best of my knowledge, said staff member did not know what the machine did, only that it related to concrete. Had this staff member known it was for changing the colours via a glitch and still said it was fine, then that's a different matter altogether and I would fully agree with what you said. However, if you just say "here's a concrete machine is it okay", without saying what it does then it can't really be called "getting staff approval". As the machine could only be identified retrospectively from the linked video, it is not fair to say that the staff member's ignorance excuses abusing the glitch. Whether the glitch is duping or not is another question.


As I said, it remains to be seen on a case to case basis whether a player has a reasonable belief that they acted in accordance with the rules. In this case, that indeed boils down, in large part, to the question if the staff member seemed to the player to know what that machine did. We will have to see what the player has to say about that.
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