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[Discussion] A Road to Recovery

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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby ~Kili » Tue May 19, 2020 12:52 am

If wild land value were to increase the sell price could remain the same, so anyone who has already reigoned land won't profit, as well as people thinking twice before buying land as it would be more of an investment as the sell price would be less leading new players having more of an incentive to get an apartment first.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby ZacTheMan1 » Tue May 19, 2020 1:07 am

~Kili wrote:If wild land value were to increase the sell price could remain the same, so anyone who has already reigoned land won't profit, as well as people thinking twice before buying land as it would be more of an investment as the sell price would be less leading new players having more of an incentive to get an apartment first.

I feel as though this might be the most logical way to do it but it would also make it a lot more frustrating to claim land. When I am trying to build new projects I tend to shift the rgs up which would make them exponentially more costly in the end. Even in the panning stage it is important to have rgs to prevent griefing.

Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby ~Doodle » Tue May 19, 2020 2:07 am

Just a summary, I disagree with banning auto farms. As strange put very well, I spent money and time on those and I deserve to be able to have sugarcane on demand. Just because you have an abundance of it doesn't mean you shouldn't have it, that goes against the whole basis of Minecraft!

Raising starting money I think will be a good idea. That also goes along with better gear (maybe diamond armour and enchanted sword).

Raising apts cap I think should stay at 600 for now.

Removing spawners is stupid. The ability to upgrade and move spawners wasn't a good one imo but removing them entirely is also unfair on those who spent money on them. Fresh is a prime example with 4 cow spawners which people can earn money selling the stuff at. If you're worried about food, I spent about 15 hours making my first ever guardian farm. I have crap tons of fish now that I can use for days and days. Should we ban guardian farms because they provide next to infinite food source? I don't see how long logic transfers anywhere else.

Wild land price needs to be the same otherwise it encourages people to just build on unregioned land and when they run out or money, they just leave it and it becomes another grief in the landscape.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby ~Billy » Tue May 19, 2020 3:16 am

People aren't going to like this, but the old economy was a lot better.

Sure there were ways of exploiting, like ender farms, iron farms and sellchests, but there was a genuine incentive 'back in the day' to literally mine stacks of cobble and sell them to the gov building. As soon as these weird automated shop mods came in (2018ish), as well as the fishing exploits, I lost interest. Call me old-fashioned, but i honestly think it became a bit over-complicated. The mobbounty was good as it created an incentive to kill the zombies on the edge of your property, rather than let them randomly walk around in the dark.

I think government projects are great for jobs and the economy. The economy was booming in 2015-16 with the West City and North City expansions, and people were buying shit. I think its important to once again increase these incentives. One of my first jobs back in the day was mining for the original Suburbs with MissileGamer, Zelreedy and a few others.

The mods and staff since i've come back seem really switched on, they know their stuff, so I have confidence with the right choices the server is still in good hands.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby MrSuperRed » Tue May 19, 2020 5:32 am

I'm sorry but I think you have a lot of conflicting ideas, although some of them are good, I think you can unify them a bit more to allow for more functionality.

For starters,
You say:
b) Raising the start balance. A start balance of F1500 is nowhere near sufficient. Costs of plots, materials, and just about everything has risen and so should the new player start balance! While the exact start amount can be debated, I suggest a good start balance in today’s economy should be F4000.


This is completely valid! I absolutely agree with you, in fact, I believe it should be more in the F5000 range. The increase is justified by an increase of the value of goods and services (caused by inflation - which I'm not arguing is bad, keep inflation).


But then here, you argue:
Modifying the fishing plugin. I think most can agree, at first the current fishing plugin seemed to be a great addition to the server, but it has unintentionally caused other problems. No matter what augments someone may have, no one should be making more than F3,000 an hour. A regular rod should make roughly F1,500 an hour while an OP rod could be on the higher end making F3,000 an hour.


You argue that "no one should be making more than F3,000 an hour". I'm assuming that because of the value of forsals no one should be making that much? You argue for inflation for the rest of the topic, but against it here?
Firstly, just because one method makes so much, doesn't mean it should be decreased. Fishing is a very easy way to create wealth (especially for newer players, who are the people that benefit the most right now).
Secondly, I understand your intentions, but that doesn't mean it should be decreased. There is a much more functional solution, of increasing how much all other methods make which is a proportionate response to inflation, an increased gov balance, new jobs, etc which is a direct correlation
Lastly, I understand you said "regardless of augments" but judging my in-game fishing experience I don't think you understand how much a max fishing rod can cost. A normal fishing rod without augments can make F5,000 - F8,000 / hour. If you have a max augment rod, which can cost over F1,000,000+ you can get to F15,000/hour which I believe is well worth the cost.

Also, you briefly mention this:
d) Constructing new government highways into the latest map expansion and into government cities. This is pretty self-explanatory, but the infrastructure is important especially if the server wants to have the car plugin.


This is a great idea. Problem is, the government (staff) isn't active enough to maintain and build proper infrastructure. There's a much easier way though!
HM has the most powerful tool, the same tool that creates all of our cities, abundance of wealth (in resources), and massive mansions/structures. The private market!
Auction the contract for the job on the forums with all the terms and conditions filled out. This has been done before by HM from one of my (many) suggestions for it but with a bunch of authority changes to Spartan, Strange, etc the practice was lost after a few months as it wasn't enforced and new administration forgot about it unfortunately.
Last edited by MrSuperRed on Tue May 19, 2020 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby MrSuperRed » Tue May 19, 2020 5:42 am

DR_StevenStrange wrote:I highly disagree with raising the new player balance. Already we are seeing a majority of new players spending their money on a wild region and then leaving because they are out of money. They are not renting apartments, which is causing the apartment business to die. By raising the new player balance, it ultimately kills the apartment business in the end. As for banning spawners and auto farms, it would upset a lot of veteran players who have spent hundreds of thousands of forsals on both regioning and materials. Something that could lead to veteran players leaving, which is something we dont want. What we want is to be able to keep both veteran and new players alike. As for things like more jobs, moving historical buildings, changing the amount made by fishing, more gov projects, and more community interaction, I support. The rest of it I see as something that will either cause a massive divide among our community, or will cause many players and possibly important key players to leave.


I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude but the first half you said made absolutely no sense.

You say:
They are not renting apartments, which is causing the apartment business to die.


I had to think about this sentence for a bit, but I really can't understand it. The sentence itself is fine, but the context being that they shouldn't raise the starter balance because of this baffles me. You don't describe the motive behind them "not renting apartments" and fail to provide a link between starting player balances and not renting apartments.
If anything, common sense and any form of logic would lead you to believe that a motive behind not renting apartments would be that they can take up more than 1/3 of your balance (F600 out of F1500). I'd be scared to put 1/3 of my money into an apartment.


Already we are seeing a majority of new players spending their money on a wild region and then leaving because they are out of money.


Okay, please explain how them running out of money would be good motive to not increase the start balance?

By raising the new player balance, it ultimately kills the apartment business in the end.


Sorry, but your past points have literally provided nothing to support this. I don't know how you came to this but raising the amount of money in a certain market (i.e. if you increase the amount of money new players have) then in that market, demand is increased (i.e. the apartment market) as that creates more demand, and supply and demand will follow up with that.

Allowing the apartment industry to flourish causes a trickle effect (called a "multiplier" in economics where 1 unit of currency turns into more through diversification of industry). Apartments are very resource-intensive structures ultimately helping out shops. Shops are owned by mostly wealthy entrepreneurs who then buy real estate everywhere including from new players, possible making cities, buying far-out plots, etc.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby Cheerios32 » Tue May 19, 2020 6:42 am

There's a lot with this suggestion, but I'm just going to address what's on my mind at this second:

You suggest banning autofarms.
Er, how? It's a significant task to try and find all the autofarms on the server. It's almost certainly possible, maybe a better way would be to use a plugin to fairly unsubtly nerf them (e.g. pistons breaking melons/pumpkins/whatever else will fail x% of the time).

Second of all: raising wild land price was brought up. I absolutely agree this needs to happen, but then we're left with the issue of either keeping track of all current regions so they can't be sold back at the new price, or leaving the sell price 5F/block, which is possibly sensible (since it means it now costs money overall to buy out people's land for inactivity) but will cause a lot of people to potentially flip.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby ~Arctic » Tue May 19, 2020 7:24 am

I fundamentally disagree with point 3b, keepinventory is one of the best things in this server as I don't have to worry that when I fall off something I'm building I will loose all my items.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby Mrbusin3ss » Tue May 19, 2020 8:02 am

I ultimately disagree with rising land value. That just strikes private cities right in the heart and will finish them off. Plus there's so much land 11000 in every direction that we don't need to worry about space. New players aren't starting in the wild the only reason why the apartment business died. It is because not a single player grinds anymore like in the past nobody gets new players people fish, and people work on private things. Nobody tries to get new players and new players don't make apartment complexes in private cities to rent apartments. They ask for a job and then learn about fishing and fish. Nobody tries to get new players except player helpers. Don't raise land value we just need the server to work together for a little to work on keeping new players. Like it's a car dealership. The salesman are shark and when a customer walks on that lot they go for them and try to make a sale that's what we need with new players. We see one we go in and make that sale. Because at this point we aren't selling apartments were selling our server and trying to save it.
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Re: [Discussion] A Road to Recovery

Postby antiPerson » Tue May 19, 2020 8:13 am

A couple of suggestions:
Promote self-sufficiency
I think that a solution to the jobs problem is that rather than telling new players they should find a job, they should consider becoming self-employed. Tell players to do research on the pricing of items and to find out what is most profitable.
Raising minimum land size
I think that owning your own piece of land could be an achievement to save up for (like it is irl), its currently too easy to get wild land and bypass apartments and private cities. I have no idea what the minimum should be but it needs to be relatively large. This means that rather than buying land with the starter balance, people will have to rent and actually use apartments before they have enough saved to purchase a plot in a private city (giving them more of a use). Then once enough money has been gained they can use that money to buy some wild land.
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