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[Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

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[Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby WackyWolff » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:36 pm

Okay. This story begins yesterday. A new friend of mine on HelloMiners wanted to build a house in my unofficial community, called Amafoodville. The land would be regioned by the government for the owner of the house that was to be built. No money was to be traded, except for money between him and his friend, both would be moving into the house that was to be built. They wanted to split the $1,710 price for the land that they were about to purchase. No money was to go to anybody else. No money would be payed under the table to anyone, just like had been true in Amafoodville in the past. The government had been paid thousands of forsals for land in this particular location, none of which had been traded to new owners, except for one rented out house, which I will get to later.
However, when LordRomias, the moderator who attended the helpme to region the land for said house, claimed it was "not acceptable" and the owner of the city had to be stated. But this isn't a city. Nobody can walk in here and move in. Only people I choose can purchase a wilderness plot close to all the other ones. This isn't an illegal city.
I spoke with staff and other players on the Hellominers Discord server. A couple players I spoke with agreed that it was illegal, but staff members, however, would not give me a definite answer as to why the city was illegal. According to the rules of the server, (https://www.hellominers.com/rules.php), a city is "a place in the wilderness where multiple plots or buildings are sold to people, where custom rules apply to the properties". Amafoodville does not apply to either of these properties. No property is sold, and there is no set of rules. Therefore, this is not a city, nor is it an illegal city. It is a collection of wilderness plots that are close to one another.
For the rented out house, the entire region is not rented out. There is a subregion that includes the interior, which makes the building a one-apartment apartment building. Apartment buildings are not illegal in the wildrenss.

Below is a list of all buildings that are owned in the "series of wilderness plots that happen to be close to one another"
    A farm, owned by me. There are six farm buildings owned by me. There are no buildings that are not owned by me.
    A house, owned by me.
    A house, owned by GameTortoise395
    A house, owned by ClassyQuarks
    A house, owned by Bob181413
    A house, owned by me again
    An unregioned, incomplete house.
    An incomplete townhouse with incorrect subregions, due to an old building being there.
    A rented out house.
    A building with furnaces in it.
    An identical building with a chestshop in it, which is not illegal.

So, any building that is owned by someone else, I am a member of. I cannot evict people, because as I've been saying, this is not a city! It does not match the criteria for a city!

Then came the Discord discussion. Most staff members were giving me flawed reasons as to why it's illegal. I will list some and give an answer as to why they are not correct.
"You called it a city"
That's a really weak argument. That's why I've called it a "series of wilderness plots that happen to be close to one another", because apparently, what I call it makes it illegal or not.

"Renting a house out is technically selling tho"
Uh, no. It's not, I'm renting out the space inside like an apartment, which is legal in the wilderness!

"You can gain money from it."
You can also make money from renting out apartments in the wilderness. Still not illegal.

"You stated that some houses are privately owned"
That means that the owner bought the land from the government, with their bal, with the helpme that THEY called. There was never a /rg addowner /rg removeowner and a payment to anybody besides the government.

"It looks like the start of a city"
First, that's an invalid argument, just because it looks like one doesn't mean it is. And I've never broken any rules. If I actually wanted to make this a city and sell out land to people, I would do it legally buy buying all the land. But I'm not going to do that, because this isn't a city, I don't want to make it public to people, so I'm not wasting money on something that I wouldn't use. There also isn't any place to expand to anyway.

"You could choose to stop renting and sell the house at any time."
Yes. That is true, I could, but I won't. If that's what makes this series of wilderness plots that happen to be close to one another illegal, then that means any building in the wilderness is illegal because the owner could sell it. Also, by that logic, a person is a criminal because they could rob a house, or deserves a Nobel prize because they could create a cure for cancer. Just because it could happen doesn't mean it will. If my city is deemed illegal because of that, then every owned building in the wilderness would also have to be called illegal.

Am I really not allowed to form a little series of wilderness plots that happen to be close to one another to put farms on? To let friends live in? There's no shady business going on here. There's no selling plots. There are no rules. It isn't a city, and it isn't an illegal city.

You can find Amafoodville (which, by the way, just because I call it that doesn't make it a town, or a city, or whatever you want to call it) by going to 430, -1000.
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Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby Cheerios32 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:57 pm

Quick note: the definition of city on the rules page is outdated because access perms. It now doesn't say "where custom rules apply" to close that exact loophole of "no rules apply".

As far as I'm concerned, if your place fits most these criteria, it is a city:

Code: Select all
Regions sold with markup.
Regions are preregioned without any ensured buyers.
A set up infrastructure network (such as roads).
Regions sold to people you don't generally talk to.
(Note: if regions are instead rented for long periods of time this still applies)
Established commercial activity (E.g having buildings that have a primary purpose of shops/apartments).
A central code of conduct that region buyers are expected to follow.
Pressure put on those who break the code to follow it.
General branding of it being a town/city when selling regions.
If a mod were to teleport a random person there, would they think they were in a city.


Those are how I'd define a city, and if those are met and the place isn't approved I'd call it an illegal city.

This is not an official response however, just my opinion.
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Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby WackyWolff » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:13 pm

Cheerios32 wrote:Quick note: the definition of city on the rules page is outdated because access perms. It now doesn't say "where custom rules apply" to close that exact loophole of "no rules apply".

As far as I'm concerned, if your place fits most these criteria, it is a city:

Code: Select all
Regions sold with markup.
Regions are preregioned without any ensured buyers.
A set up infrastructure network (such as roads).
Regions sold to people you don't generally talk to.
(Note: if regions are instead rented for long periods of time this still applies)
Established commercial activity (E.g having buildings that have a primary purpose of shops/apartments).
A central code of conduct that region buyers are expected to follow.
Pressure put on those who break the code to follow it.
General branding of it being a town/city when selling regions.
If a mod were to teleport a random person there, would they think they were in a city.


Those are how I'd define a city, and if those are met and the place isn't approved I'd call it an illegal city.

This is not an official response however, just my opinion.


Regions are not sold.

Regions are only made when a building is built, or when I building is being built. I've never claimed land there before a building was built.

Roads are built after buildings are made. I want the series of wilderness claims that happen to be close to one another to be car accessible, because I use cars.

The house is rented for 30 days like most apartments.

There is one building with a total of three times for sale... Should I remove it? I really don't think that would be considered established commercial activity.

No rules are in place.

There are no rules to break, so nobody can be put under pressure for it.

I don't sell regions and it's not called a town or a city.

There is a sign at the entrance that explicitly says it's not a city, calling it "unincorporated". The player would fail to find any information about it, because there is no "town center", for say, that would usually include rules or information.
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Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby ViHQ » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:52 pm

If he's not selling plots, or regions to his friends, then this isn't a city.

There are plenty of villages built on the server that are between friends, and only friends. Seems like you're a newer player, why are we trying to stop them from having fun? Just some friends who wanted to live close together. Nothing wrong with this.
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Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby WackyWolff » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:01 pm

ViHQ wrote:If he's not selling plots, or regions to his friends, then this isn't a city.

There are plenty of villages built on the server that are between friends, and only friends. Seems like you're a newer player, why are we trying to stop them from having fun? Just some friends who wanted to live close together. Nothing wrong with this.


I'm not a new player, but this series of wilderness plots that are close to one another is. I've been here since 2015 I'm pretty sure. And yes, that's exactly the message in trying to get across. Thank you!
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Used to have 120k but now only has 20k because... Cars and planes

Visit Amafood in the VC shopping center on the third floor, Silver Lake, and Archendale!

Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby ~Satan » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:18 pm

As a former City Department Regulator I don't see anything wrong with this structure. As long as it is a closed community with no commercial gains it's basically a bunch of friends building their houses next to each other. It becomes problematic when you're a public structure selling plots to anyone and build a structure similar to an actual city with eyesore rules and what not.
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Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby llllgf » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:50 pm

WackyWolff wrote: Nobody can walk in here and move in. Only people I choose can purchase a wilderness plot close to all the other ones.


Actually no, you have no say who can come region close to your city. I could come out and region a 100,000 f plot around your "city" and there is nothing you can do. Because you said this statement. It looks like you are trying to CONTROL a "city" so it kinda is illegal.
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Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby KennethDev » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:02 pm

llllgf wrote:
WackyWolff wrote: Nobody can walk in here and move in. Only people I choose can purchase a wilderness plot close to all the other ones.


Actually no, you have no say who can come region close to your city. I could come out and region a 100,000 f plot around your "city" and there is nothing you can do. Because you said this statement. It looks like you are trying to CONTROL a "city" so it kinda is illegal.


1. You'd be a jerk for doing that.
2. You are a jerk for always using massive text. It's unneeded and annoying.
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Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby WackyWolff » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:17 pm

llllgf wrote:
WackyWolff wrote: Nobody can walk in here and move in. Only people I choose can purchase a wilderness plot close to all the other ones.


Actually no, you have no say who can come region close to your city. I could come out and region a 100,000 f plot around your "city" and there is nothing you can do. Because you said this statement. It looks like you are trying to CONTROL a "city" so it kinda is illegal.


What I meant by that is that no one can come a get a plot from me. The fact that someone could do that even makes it less like a city, because it's not protected by a big claim with subregions, because it's not a city. In a city, anyone can by a plot. You can't buy land here because there's no land to buy from me!
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Used to have 120k but now only has 20k because... Cars and planes

Visit Amafood in the VC shopping center on the third floor, Silver Lake, and Archendale!

Re: [Staff Please Read] Amafoodville is not an illegal city.

Postby Gerhard » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:11 pm

llllgf wrote:
WackyWolff wrote: Nobody can walk in here and move in. Only people I choose can purchase a wilderness plot close to all the other ones.


Actually no, you have no say who can come region close to your city. I could come out and region a 100,000 f plot around your "city" and there is nothing you can do. Because you said this statement. It looks like you are trying to CONTROL a "city" so it kinda is illegal.]


For the love of god, stop using bold and size 200 font in every post you make. We can see what you type when you don't use any of that perfectly fine.
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